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Forgive my messy ramblings

I'm leaving this entry public, but slander will not be tolerated, and will cause this entry to go friends-only.

People keep asking me why I'm thinking about this now. After all, it's only been two months.*

Truth is, I've thought about it a lot. An awful lot. It's always been an issue, and I think I've tried to avoid talking about it in fear of scaring Ron.

His parents brought up some points this weekend. They said that they would support us in whatever we decided to do, but made it abundantly clear that they did not think a two-religion home was a good idea, and that one of us would have to spin a hundred and eighty degrees.

I'm an uncompromising person when it comes to this. I'm not Christian. I will not ever be. My beliefs and ideals are Judaism with a touch of agnosticism. I am open to learning, but my fundamental beliefs lie in Judaism, and without offending anyone, I hope I am able to say that I will never believe in Christianty/Christ.

That said, I've dealt with this in the past. With Rob. When he originally decided to convert to Judaism, I felt terrible. I didn't want it to be me that had convinced him. Helping him find G-D I was fine with, but I wasn't fine with the fact that he was changing his ideas and beliefs because of me. We spent lots of time discussing my then-hypocritical thoughts towards conversion in the past. We were already engaged at the time, and I had thought I would be okay with raising mychildren as Jews but with a non-Jewish father. He and I had convinced ourselves and eachother that he was doing it for him, and not for me. We took conversion classes, and he was two weeks away when we broke up. And then, he decided not to become Jewish. Then I realized that all along it WAS for me, and the thought that I had tried to change someones religion really hurt, as I think that everyone should be able to believe what they want to believe. Not to say that people cannot be enlightened, but it is not my job, responsibility, or place to enlighten them (many Christians would disagree). I am not one for proselytization.

Okay, so this presents a problem. I don't want Ron to convert because of me. I am not going to convert for him or for me. I am not willing to raise my Children as anything but Jews. It puts us in a very sticky spot. Ron is a wonderful, compromising, adjusting man who has said that he wouldn't mind raising his children as Jews, but my own faults come into play. Say that I go along with this, and that he also believes he is okay with this. Does that mean that Ron never celebrates Christmas again? I can't ask that of him, but also don't want my children to celebrate Christian holidays. As 'American' as they have become, I'm still pretty darn sure that Christmas and Easter were the birth and resurrection of Jesus Christ... Or say down the road (like what happened with Rob), I realize I cannot be with a man who doesn't believe in the same faith as me? I can't trust myself to not do that, and again we're sticky.

What's more important though, a loving family or one who is united in their religion? Not that both cannot exist, but I think that Ron and I would be able to raise children who are good people who believe in G-d without a formal religious upbringing. But I don't want it. I want my son(s) and daughter(s) to become B'nai Mitzvah and be strong in their Jewish faith. It's funny, sometimes I don't mind being selfish at all, but when it comes to this, I know that I can't possibly ask that of Ron, to forgo all Christian traditions and practice Jewish ones, whether he converts or not. And no, for those reading this, I am not asking him to convert, nor will I ever.

I'm also not planning on breaking up with him. I love this man, and I want to spend as much time as possible with him, for as long as he'll have me. Luckily, we will hopefully not have to deal with this on a large scale for several years.

We both believe in G-d. We both have doubts about our religions. My religion welcomes doubt, I'm not sure about Christianity. We can discuss afterlife and good deeds, and life without too much disagreement. We have many of the same stances on domestic religious policies, though haven't discussed many for awhile. We're more the same than we are different. We wouldn't be together and have the wonderful relationship that we do if we had major colliding opinions.

*Two months. An amount of time, but what is time? And is two months 8 dates? Or is two months spending every possible moment together because you can't get enough of eachother, and spending the same amount of time together as you do apart? 60 dates?

**Two months. But is it easier to get out now, with less pain than to get in really deep and not be able to get out, and be much more hurt if the end of the relationship is deemed necessary? The farther you get in, the harder it is to get out.



( 13 comments — Leave a comment )
Apr. 11th, 2006 12:02 am (UTC)
Other than what I've already said over on his LJ, I add this here. Your religion welcomes doubt? I'm fairly sure the Jews had to wander in the desert for a very long time because of their doubt.

Apr. 11th, 2006 12:08 am (UTC)
doubt - DEFINITELY WELCOME. Doubting strengthens faith.
Apr. 11th, 2006 01:23 am (UTC)
Perhaps we're defining doubt in different terms.

Some questioning and exploration certainly does strengthen faith. But doubt, to me, is more the disbelief of what the texts say.

Apr. 11th, 2006 12:05 am (UTC)
"My beliefs and ideals are Judaism with a touch of agnosticism. I am open to learning, but my fundamental beliefs lie in Judaism, and without offending anyone, I hope I am able to say that I will never believe in Christianty/Christ."

um. mondo contradiction!

for such a "liberal" person, you sure are ridiculously conservative in your beliefs xD
Apr. 11th, 2006 04:10 pm (UTC)
She's "ridiculously conservative" because of that comment? May you never meet anyone who is truly closed minded. :)
Apr. 12th, 2006 03:04 am (UTC)
She is rather closed-minded when it comes to her religion.
Apr. 12th, 2006 05:04 am (UTC)
Knowing what you believe and being closed-minded are two different things. It's not being closed-minded to say, "I will never believe in Christ" or even to say, "I will only raise my children as Jews." It would be closed-minded to say, "My opinions are the only correct opinions" or "People who believe otherwise are wrong."

I don't see a contradiction in being firm in a belief that is important to you but open to LEARNING about other people's beliefs. Open minded doesn't mean you have to believe those things too.
Apr. 11th, 2006 02:09 am (UTC)
I've gone through these problems before and they are the same craziness for me as well, because I want to raise my kids jewish, but according to the interpretation of the Torah, kids take mom's religion.

Wow, that was a long run-on sentence. Forgive me.

My advice would be to end it if neither of you feel that one would convert for the reasons of themself and not each other. If you break up now and say Ron decides on his own to convert, he'll come back after if he loves you or wishes to continue where you left off. If you delay the "inevitable" that hurts both of you in the sense that you close off anyone else coming into your lives. It will also hurt like a bitch and probably crush both of you.

I know I want my kids bar-bat mitzvahed. I want the same Jewish traditions I had in my house with my family. I would say compromise or put an end to it now while it wont hurt nearly as much. I speak from experience, so I can relate to you a bit on this. You know if you wanna talk, you can always call me.
Apr. 11th, 2006 12:07 pm (UTC)
I dated a guy who was Methodist (whereas I'm Baptist), and he leaned toward the agnostic side also. We used to have fights about evolution and all kinds of stuff, and it used to weigh on my mind that if we ever got married, we couldn't be a cohesive unit on what we told our children about religion and the world. We broke up, and now I'm engaged to a guy with many similar beliefs about religion that I also hold. It makes life so much easier. I'm not saying that differences are a bad thing, but I know that he and I will have children eventually and know we will raise them with certain religious beliefs that we both share.

This seems like a big issue to you, and I understand. As a Christian, believing in Christ is the underpinning of our beliefs and religion, and I do not know alot about Judiaism, but I guess I can say that a belief of your religion is that you don't recognize the divinity of Christ. And I think it would be a major compromise for Ron to convert because it would mean the denial of a fundamental belief of his religion. If his doubts are about Christ, then maybe conversion is the way to go, but if he doesn't convert and you have a family in the future, wouldn't he want to be able to share his holidays and practices with his kids also? I don't think it would be fair to Ron, you or the hypothetical kids in question. Yes, opposites attract, but similarities make life easier. :/

Apr. 11th, 2006 03:38 pm (UTC)
It sounds like you'd have a lot of problems raising kids with Ron. Maybe that means you need to decide whether you want a boyfriend-girlfriend relationship with a guy you wouldn't feel comfortable raising kids with.* You can honorably say yes or no, and so can he.

*Not your fault, or his fault, or even his parents' fault. There just doesn't seem to be a path you can both be happy with.

Mom would say this is why you should date Jewish guys :P
Apr. 11th, 2006 04:13 pm (UTC)
I just wanted to give you a big HUG.
Apr. 11th, 2006 04:26 pm (UTC)
thanks, I can always use a hug.
Apr. 13th, 2006 02:34 am (UTC)
( 13 comments — Leave a comment )


Much like pineapples, I am hardcore.

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