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Gay Marriage

There has been a lot of recent debate about the issue of gay marriage and I am disgusted at the ignorance of some people in this respect.

As a heterosexual female planning on marrying a heterosexual male, I am completely for gay marriage. I see no problems whatsoever in granting homosexuals the same rights as I, to love the person and marry the person I want to spend the rest of my life with. There shouldn't even be a distinction. We are all the same. We're all a family under one sky.

Is it really so morally corrupt to want to love and be loved? Should we not all be granted the same rights? Shouldn't a G-d who is so loving want people to love, more than wanting the hate towards homosexuality?

By denying gay marriage, because it is "different," aren't you therefore making interracial marriage also a sin? Why would you even think to say who a person can and cannot marry?! Why should you even care? It won't destroy your home, it wont send our country to the dogs! It will only unite legally the sanction of two men or two women.

Lets suppose that homosexual marriage IS wrong, that it offends you in some way. What right do you have to restrict others from it? I don't like lima beans, but you can have all you want. In fact, you can have my share too.

Eve was wrong as well, and the source of all evil, correct? WOMEN should not be able to get married!

If they are right, and homosexuality is immoral, then its already happened. If all sins are the same in the eyes of G-d, then two sins are being committed, that of premarital sex, and that of homosexual sex. If your real goal is to save these people from sin, then allow them to be married, so the premarital sex will no longer be an issue, cutting the issues down to only one, and therefore cutting the sins in half.

When speaking on the topic of homosexuality, during a 1998 interview on "Face the Nation," now Attorney General John Ashcroft said "I believe the Bible calls it a sin, and that's what defines sin for me." Ashcroft's thoughts are illustrative of the odd fact that the Bible is still the "moral compass" for many Americans. This is true. But shall you not have thoughts for yourself? Shall we take the bible in its heed without further inspection? In the bible it specifically says that Jews are allowed to own slaves, as long as they are not Jewish. Didn't your mother tell you not to believe everything you read? Cum grano salis, and for you less learned people, that means "take it with a grain of salt." Mere humans wrote the bible, and humans err.

Homosexuality has been around since the dawn of man, or time. It's present in other animals as well. Why would G-d condemn something so obviously natural. If it happens in nature, G-d created it. If G-d created homosexuality why would he condemn those who practice it?

Shall we not appreciate the thoughts, the minds, the art of those who are homosexual? Leonardo DaVinci was gay, should we burn the Mona Lisa, because it was painted by a gay man, and therefore must be offensive to G-d? Shall we also burn The Last Supper?

And while we're at it, lets burn the tapes of Martin Luther King, Jr, because he isn't like us. Dumb dream of everyone getting along, being equal.


Matthew says, and I certainly agree, that certainly no religion or church should be required to marry gays. A Jew can't marry a gentile in an orthodox shul. I don't think you can marry a divorcee in a Catholic church. We need to accept that different religions have different definitions of sacred marriage, and some of them will be ok with gays and some will not. That's freedom of religion. You can join a friendly religion, or you can go to a justice of the peace. Same options anybody else has.

And forgetting the religious factor all together, lets concentrate on the Constitution, and again taking from Matthew..

No part of the constitution mentions marriage. But the first section of the fourteenth amendment (equal protection clause)

http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.amendmentxiv.html

says that all states must give all citizens equal legal protection, privileges, and immunities. Thus I figure you should be able to legally marry any citizen you wish. Male, female, third husband or first cousin. Anything less is unconstitutional discrimination. The same argument here that requires legalization of gay marriage also legalizes polygamy, etc. One alternative would be to remove all government sanction for marriage, so everybody would still have equal protection, but that seems like an unpopular choice as well.

"Amendment XIV Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."


My mother also added that if people were not meant to be homosexual, G-d would not have made them so.

Gay marriage isn't about promiscuous sex, its about two people who love and care for each other, and want to spend the rest of their lives together.

Million for Marriage Petition

quasidan has made a "gay marriage is morally wrong" thingie.. with four pages of comments, compared to 270 on the "marriage is love"

      
Marriage is love.


plus the first and I'm sure are many more in opposition to his statement.


You people seem to like bible quotes. I shall grace you with some

This one says,

KILL HOMOSEXUALS

"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives."
(Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

(I thought murder was a sin? maybe I was wrong)

KILL YOUR SON

"Suppose a man has a stubborn, rebellious son who will not obey his father or mother, even though they discipline him. In such cases, the father and mother must take the son before the leaders of the town. They must declare: 'This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious and refuses to obey. He is a worthless drunkard.' Then all the men of the town must stone him to death. In this way, you will cleanse this evil from among you, and all Israel will hear about it and be afraid." (Deuteronomy 21:18-21 NLT)

OH, AND BY THE WAY, G-D APPROVES OF INCEST


"Afterward Lot left Zoar because he was afraid of the people there, and he went to live in a cave in the mountains with his two daughters. One day the older daughter said to her sister, "There isn't a man anywhere in this entire area for us to marry. And our father will soon be too old to have children. Come, let's get him drunk with wine, and then we will sleep with him. That way we will preserve our family line through our father." So that night they got him drunk, and the older daughter went in and slept with her father. He was unaware of her lying down or getting up again. The next morning the older daughter said to her younger sister, "I slept with our father last night. Let's get him drunk with wine again tonight, and you go in and sleep with him. That way our family line will be preserved." So that night they got him drunk again, and the younger daughter went in and slept with him. As before, he was unaware of her lying down or getting up again."

"So both of Lot's daughters became pregnant by their father. When the older daughter gave birth to a son, she named him Moab. He became the ancestor of the nation now known as the Moabites. When the younger daughter gave birth to a son, she named him Ben-ammi. He became the ancestor of the nation now known as the Ammonites." (Genesis 19:30-38 NLT)

Comments

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aoibhinn
Feb. 16th, 2004 12:52 pm (UTC)
btw, not all who oppose gay marriage are bible thumpers. A friend of mine who is a gay man is oppossed to gay marriage, because of his experience on the promiscuity of gay men. He thinks it will lead to a spike in divorce. I don't agree, but it's interesting to hear a gay man's perspective.
somebodyelse
Feb. 16th, 2004 12:59 pm (UTC)
Re:
I quite disagree with that idea. I think one of the reasons gay men are so promiscuous is that they've been denied the right to marry. If their relationships have no real goal in sight, it's harder to see a reason to stick with it.
Re: - perfect_garden - Mar. 9th, 2005 12:04 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: - thisgirliknow - Mar. 9th, 2005 02:48 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: - thisgirliknow - Feb. 16th, 2004 01:03 pm (UTC) - Expand
steph_hime
Feb. 16th, 2004 12:58 pm (UTC)
I personally don't get why people think that all Christians are apposed to same sex marriage. I'm a Christian, and have been my whole life, and I totally support same sex marriage. Love is love as far as I am concerned, whether is be between a male and a female, a male and a male, or a female and a female.
thisgirliknow
Feb. 16th, 2004 01:05 pm (UTC)
Re:
Well good. This isn't directed at you then. I'm not saying that all Christians are opposed to gay marriage, I'm saying the people I've talked to that are opposed are mainly Christian, and only use Bible verses to back up their beliefs.
Re: - steph_hime - Feb. 16th, 2004 01:09 pm (UTC) - Expand
newscane
Feb. 16th, 2004 01:20 pm (UTC)
To drive home the point of "don't listen to absolutely everything in the Bible..."

The discussion started to remind me of something from an episode of The West Wing where there's a debate over the death penalty, and several religious figures are consulted. Found the following link:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/exe_bibl.htm

Among some of the grounds given there for capital punishment:

-for being seduced if engaged
-for proselytizing
-for prostitution
-for cursing parents
-for working on Saturday
-Gluttony and excessive drinking

Obviously, we don't kill people for many of those things anymore. Just to make the point that interpretations of what's in the Bible can change.
bigmanoftcc
Feb. 16th, 2004 01:24 pm (UTC)
Tolerance is the name of the game. Christians dont hate anybody. god loves everyone. He's not a fan of sin though. Being a homosexual isnt a sin. Practising homosexuality is. Toleration of people and tolerating sin are two different things. Open practice of homosexual activity is seen, and maybe its just me, as a mockery of a ceremony when its labelled under "marriage". Under the pretense of being a sin, is it hard to see why some Christians arent exactly with it? Permitting homosexuals to marry to "cut their sins by half" is watering down doctrine. Infact, many Christians believe that the Bible is divine inspiration, written by God and transcribed by men. So, under this pretense that homosexuality is sin, as recorded by God, does it kinda start to make sense how people can feel this way? Being opposed to Gay marriage isnt a battle to suppres their thoughts or contributions. Its simply an effort to keep the marriage ceremony sacred according to Christian beliefs.

On the constitution, i dont agrue that homosexuals have the right to a domestic union. its just, trying to keep it from being a mockery of marriage

On the Biblical quotes, In the Christian Perspective, the old testament is the old covanent. With the whole Jesus thing, hes the new covanent. So, the killing of people, all that jazz, was the old religion before Christ came and fufilled his thing.

And on the last one, where does God approve of said incest? the daughters had to get Lot drunk in order to perform the act. Sounds sketchy to me

But anyways, i hope you see this more as an insight as i intend than as an arguement.

<3matt
thisgirliknow
Feb. 16th, 2004 01:28 pm (UTC)
Re:
Marriage is sacred to Christian beliefs, but this country is founded on a separation of church and state, and there's no reason why Christians should force these beliefs on everyone.

Correct me if I am wrong, I thought Christians believed everything in the "Old Testament" and only added to it with the "New"

Your bible contains mine.
Ergo, you should keep the kosher laws. Hmm.
Re: - bigmanoftcc - Feb. 16th, 2004 01:36 pm (UTC) - Expand
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anditut
Feb. 16th, 2004 02:43 pm (UTC)
Sorry, I would just like to add this. Who is it that says that marriage is only a christian institution? Marriage ceremonies have been performed all over the world and for millenia, and in most of these places and times the name of jesus was never spoken. To say that two people should not be married because it is sacrilege is ridiculous, as the idea of marriage has been around long before the days of christianity. Not to mention the fact that the people getting married are not necessarily christian, and that is true for any couple, not just homosexual couples.
subjectivity
Feb. 16th, 2004 02:59 pm (UTC)
Re:
Hear, hear.

Christianity does not own marriage.

It's possible there may be some valid reasons to not have homosexual marriages.. but "it's a sin according to Christianity" is not one of them.
Re: - anditut - Feb. 16th, 2004 03:23 pm (UTC) - Expand
petebrost
Feb. 16th, 2004 04:55 pm (UTC)
I realize the majority of the people in this country are Christian....but may I remind you that this isn't a Christian nation. The Bible and Christian beliefs should be totally irrelevant to this entire topic because in this country we have the seperation of church and state.

So you shouldn't decide the legality of something based on what is written in the Bible.


Fin.
imsarahann
Feb. 16th, 2004 05:05 pm (UTC)
I'm just wondering when the right to persue happiness was ammended to say "but not for gay's" also.. when did morals decide what happens? Isn't this what our founding fathers were against? People being dictated to by the morals of others? If you dont like gay marriage.. don't marry someone of the same sex..

Its simple..
sailorscorpio
Feb. 16th, 2004 05:42 pm (UTC)
Jebus, there's a whole lot of debate on this lately. You have to be the third or fourth on my friends list alone who's done a post regarding this matter... wow...

On what Matthew said: Yup, he's right. In the Roman Catholic church, it's wrong to get a divorce, and you can be excommunicated for getting one. I technically should be kicked out of the Catholic church because of how Rob came to be, regardless of the fact that Brian and I were engaged and actively planning a wedding/marriage before Rob was conceived.

I personally don't see the problem in it. I have homosexual girls on my friends list. They're not trying to seduce me, so no big deal. I have no problem with a gay guy until he thinks he can seduce Brian; on that note, I'll get just as nasty with a girl who thinks she can seduce him. I knew of two gay guys that came into Sweet Tomatoes a lot when I worked there back down in Coral Springs. You know they'd been together since 1980? Not only are they a gay couple, they're interracial: Dave's black and was born in Jamaica; Carl's white and was born in NJ. They were very nice guys, got along great, and I enjoyed chatting with them when they came in. If I had a break while they were there, I'd ask if I could join them because they were so nice. Me, I had my adorable "you look so young" charm. I'm sure if they adopted, they could both make great fathers together.

It's not my lifestyle choice, but my choices also aren't theirs. Where the hell's all the fuss coming from? Give them the right and be done with it, you know? And since when should the government go off of the bible? Didn't our founding fathers come here to escape religious oppression? Yeah, church and state are seperate for a good reason: because America's founded on the basis that you can be whatever the hell you want here....

...okies, I'm ranting on your comments page... blah, need to go do homework... ack!
stefanina
Feb. 16th, 2004 08:03 pm (UTC)
Re:
The Catholic Church would not baptized me until I was two since I was concieved out of wedlock, and therefore a bastard child. Gee, wonder why I'm not a practicing Catholic anymore...
Re: - sailorscorpio - Feb. 17th, 2004 10:01 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: - stefanina - Feb. 17th, 2004 09:22 pm (UTC) - Expand
(Anonymous)
Feb. 16th, 2004 06:24 pm (UTC)
I don't know anything about anything, I'm just presenting information because I thought it was amusing. I also don't know these LJers so I hope they don't mind....

Stolen from kessa,
who shameless copied it from dch4,
who quoted it himself from xnatedieselx,
as they wrote it in libertarianism.

And she'll tell two people and she'll tell two people...


12 Reasons Same-Sex Marriages Will "Ruin" Society



1. Homosexuality is not natural, much like eyeglasses, polyester, and birth control.

2. Heterosexual marriages are valid because they produce children. Infertile couples and old people can't legally get married because the world needs more children.

3. Obviously gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only raise straight children.

4. Straight marriage will be less meaningful, since Britney Spears' 55-hour just-for-fun marriage was meaningful.

5. Heterosexual marriage has been around a long time and hasn't changed at all; women are property, blacks can't marry whites, and divorce is illegal.

6. Gay marriage should be decided by people not the courts, because the majority-elected legislatures, not courts, have historically protected the rights of the minorities.

7. Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire counrty. That's why we have only one religion in America.

8. Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall.

9. Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract.

10. Children can never suceed without a male and a female role model at home. That's why single parents are forbidden to raise children.

11. Gay marriage will change the foundation of society. Heterosexual marriage has been around for a long time, and we could never adapt to new social norms because we haven't adapted to cars or longer lifespans.

12. Civil unions, providing most of the same benefits as marriage with a different name are better, because a "seperate but equal" institution is always constitutional. Seperate schools for African-Americans worked just as well as seperate marriages for gays and lesbians will.
sailorscorpio
Feb. 16th, 2004 07:58 pm (UTC)
Re:
I don't know who you are, but ::claps:: Whoever wrote this originally deserves a Nobel Peace Prize. Especially with that comment about Britney (I despise her).
iequaltrac
Feb. 16th, 2004 07:21 pm (UTC)
I don't even know how I came upon this entry, but everyone brings up very valid and insightful points. I feel enlightened just by reading through everyone's replies.
magicpeak
Feb. 16th, 2004 08:14 pm (UTC)
You get my vote. In my opinion, marriage is not about sex, but it is about caring and sharing. Guys can also care and love each other.
thebohomama
Feb. 16th, 2004 10:18 pm (UTC)
Amen
I love your argument! Well researched and I love the bible quotes at the end.

I'm a heterosexual female as well, and I fully support Gay marriage.

I'll be redundant in saying that gays being allowed to marry is far from mockery of the sanctity of marriage. If two people love one another and wish to share that love with themselves, or with a child even, whats the big deal? We have enough people out there who aren't willing to do that in heterosexual relationships, you'd think people would embrace it.

What happened to the freedom's were to supposed to have in this country (specifically from religion because the ONLY reason that this could be turned down is based on the Christian idea of marriage).
sugarcookienazi
Feb. 16th, 2004 10:57 pm (UTC)
The original list was written by the Gator Gay Straight Alliance.

http://www.GatorGSA.org/gaymarriage.html
ex_hoing
Feb. 17th, 2004 07:23 am (UTC)
I am a born and raised catholic, and I think that out of all the people who argue against gay marriage, the catholics have no ground to stand on-What with all the priests and altar boys scandals. On top of that, I have many friends that are gay, and I back them up 100% on how they feel about same-sex marriage. The government has absolutely no right to say you can't marry someone of the same sex. That, to me, feels like a definite mixing of church and state first off. Secondly, I feel that if I want to do something with myself or another consenting adult as long as it doesn't violate an outsiders rights, then I should be allowed. That's my two cents.
lilpinkflirt
Feb. 17th, 2004 09:22 am (UTC)
Actually, usually where it says 'homosexual' or homsexuality is shown in the bible it was translated incorrectly. If you want support for your fight on that you can go to this post
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